Note To Future Me featuring Networking Rx

In this episode of Note To Future Me, I interview Frank Agin, founder and president of AmSpirit Business Connections and host of the podcast Networking Rx.  Frank is putting in an extraordinary amount of time networking, with his podcast.

His podcast has the unique flavor that it is designed to help him expand his AmSpirit Business franchise base.  Not only does he produce a podcast that provides insight on networking, but it builds his branding for AmSpirit. He’s just a few months in, but he already knows this podcast will do what he set out for it to do.

Recorded in Studio C at the 511 Studios, located in the Brewery District downtown Columbus, Ohio.

Networking Rx (transcribed by Sonix)

Brett Johnson: As I do with every episode with Note to Future Me, I love to ask what nonprofit you’re supporting, or give time, talent, and treasure to?

Frank Agin: I don’t necessarily have one in particular that I give time to. About four years ago, I sat down … You’ll learn, as we talk more, I’m into networking. There’s lots of small businesses that I help to connect one another. I knew of a series of smaller not-for-profits, and I said, “What if I brought them together? What if I brought them together, and allowed them to learn about each other?”

Frank Agin: I told everyone who’s ever been there, who comes, I said, “You know what? I know what everyone’s number-one issue is – it’s money. None of you are gonna give up your money for the next guy, but let’s talk about all the other issues that you have. Let’s just put money aside. Let’s talk about all the other issues.” There are a ton of issues that are out there.

Frank Agin: This is called the Charitable Roundtable. We meet once a month, the second Friday of every month. I invite in any small not-for-profit. I invite small business people who wanna come in, and just learn about what’s going on out there. Volunteer, or whatever they can do to try and help that small not-for-profit community.

Frank Agin: That’s kinda my give to the charitable world. It’s something that I continue to try, and invest time, and a little bit of money every month … Putting a website up, and putting Facebook ads out there, just to attract other people.

Brett Johnson: I’ll put up a link in the show notes about it [cross talk]

Frank Agin: Okay, great.

Brett Johnson: -listening have an interest in it, sure, get a hold of you.

Frank Agin: Yeah, thank you.

Brett Johnson: Sounds good. Let’s talk about your professional background, and history, before we get into your podcast.

Frank Agin: Professional background: I moved to Columbus in 1984 to go to law school. I had no idea where Ohio State was. I had to ask some questions. Anyhow, I came here to go to law school. I got a law degree, and I got an MBA from Ohio State. Finished up there in 1988.

Frank Agin: From there, I started in a really big firm. I was with a public accounting firm; I was a tax consultant. I tell people I hated every minute of it, except for the 26 days a year I got paid. It was a good place to work, but the type of work wasn’t really for me.

Frank Agin: After about six-and-a-half years, I decided to leave, and go into private practice. I tell people a funny thing happened to me, when I went into private practice, and the funny thing was that nothing happened. I started my career with a really large firm, and that really large firm just gives you work. When you’re in small business, you gotta go, and hunt it yourself, and I had no idea how to do that.

Frank Agin: Through a series of introductions, I was introduced to a concept … A concept of an organization was based out of Pittsburgh. They brought together entrepreneurs, sales reps, and professionals into a weekly meeting setting, where the people learned about each other, and they exchange referrals. Thought it was neat. Didn’t think twice about it. I joined. Did very well through it; got lots of referrals; could help lots of businesses. Make a long story short, at one point, I had an opportunity … I bought it. That was back- dating back to 2004.

Frank Agin: I don’t practice law anymore, and I’ve just pretty much … The name of the organization is AmSpirit Business Connections. ‘Am’ is short for American spirit. That’s what I do. I spend my days working with small businesses, certainly here in Columbus, but I have a series of franchisees growing throughout the country, as well.

Brett Johnson: Why a podcast?

Frank Agin: About a year ago, the notion was put on my radar. I’ve written a number of books. I think I’ve written 10 different books on professional networking. I do a lot of speaking – professional, and public speaking – on networking; written a lot of articles. Somebody said, “Hey, you oughta think about a podcast. This is another way to get content out there.” I, right away, dismissed it as , “Okay …” I don’t understand it. There’s so many moving parts to this. I’m so busy.

Frank Agin: Then, over the summer, I was working with a gentleman, and he was … As I try, and franchise this, he was trying to get me to do what they term a ‘sales funnel.’ “Hey, listen in, and if you … Next week, we’ll talk about this.” Just continually pulling people along, and teasing, and teasing, and teasing.

Frank Agin: We were taping that, and one of the episodes, or one of the segments didn’t tape well, and we needed to retape it. He wanted me to just do it on my computer, and send it to him. I thought about it overnight, and it just didn’t feel right. I called him the next day. I said. “You know what? I don’t wanna do this. It just doesn’t feel right. It feels like a cheap sales ploy,” is what it felt like.

Frank Agin: I said, “What I really would like to do is I have so many thoughts and ideas on professional networking; things that I could share to help people become more successful.” He says, “Well, what you’re talking about’s a podcast.” Well, I guess I am. I said, “Give me a month.” I was coming up on vacation, and it’s a busy time. “Give me a month, and I’ll put together an outline.”

Frank Agin: I did, and came back to him with it. I said this is what I sorta wanna do. He really didn’t offer a whole lot of help, with respect to the nuts and bolts. I was very fortunate, because this was happening over the summertime. My daughter, who’s a communication major at Denison University, was interning with me. I just asked her. I said, “Hey, Logan, could you get me a checklist of all the things we need to do to put a podcast together?” She did, and we just started picking through things one at a time, one at a time, one at a time.

Frank Agin: The hardest thing is just coming up with content; not the hardest thing … I got plenty of content, but it’s just deciding what order do I talk about it all-

Brett Johnson: The strategy [cross talk] the content.

Frank Agin: Yeah …

Brett Johnson: Exactly, and that’s a good problem to have, though.

Frank Agin: Oh, it is.

Brett Johnson: The reverse is horrible – not to have anything to talk about, but you need to have a podcast.

Frank Agin: Well, I’m sure there are lots of people out there, get started in podcasting, and get to episode nine, and they’re, “Well, I really have nothing else to say.”

Brett Johnson: Right.

Frank Agin: For me, it’s I want to limit myself to … I could do it every day, but that’s not the business. It’s just- it supports the business, so I kinda have to stop myself, week to week.

Brett Johnson: Right. What factors were discussed in measuring the success, or failure of the podcast, as you began?

Frank Agin: I decided, when I was gonna- when I started … I know some really connected people out there, and my initial thought was I’m going to go to them, and get them on my podcast, because then that’ll get me an audience right away. I thought about it. It’s like, you know what? I bet everybody does that. “Hey, I’m gonna have a podcast. I’m gonna get Person X on, and that’ll change my world.”

I said, “No, I’m not gonna do that.” I’m gonna come to them with 100 episodes under my belt, and I’m gonna come to them, and say, “You know what? I have a podcast. I’ve been doing a podcast. I’ve been doing 100 episodes, or 99; I want you to be number 100.” To me, that seemed to be more genuine.

Frank Agin: I do measure. I do look at the number of downloads, month to month, and see what’s being downloaded, and what’s working, and what’s not working, but I try not to put too much into that, because if you have a bad month – the downloads aren’t going up, or you’re not getting as much – I just …

Frank Agin: I think this is true of anything, in any business; you just need to be consistent. You need to be true to what you’re doing. That’s, for the most part, where success comes from, not just in podcasting, but really in business. You just have to get out there. You have to do things, and you have to stick with it. That’s my game plan is I’m just gonna keep providing great content, and just give it time.

Brett Johnson: From what I’m seeing, and feeling myself, that’s pretty much the best game plan is the long tail of it … Anything you do takes time, and you’re gonna get better at it, and you’re going to find what topics are best, over time; what resonates. Some are not gonna be home runs at all, of course, but the next one will be.

Frank Agin: Right.

Brett Johnson: Just like making calls for sales. That one didn’t say yes to it, but the next one will. It’s that positive attitude of you’re gonna get better; you’re gonna get better.

Frank Agin: Yeah, well, that’s exactly it. You get feedback from people, who say, “I really like that. I love the stories you tell.” Okay, I need to do more of that.

Brett Johnson: Right. There you go.

Frank Agin: I share with people that the first episode I did … Well, the first one was me just talking about myself, and what my plans were, but the first real episode I did, and these are 20-minute episodes, at best … That’s what I want my length to be, the total length. Took me eight hours to record. I wanted to cry. I really wanted to cry, because … If this is gonna be a weekly thing, I don’t have eight hours every week.

Brett Johnson: Right.

Frank Agin: Now I’ve gotten down to the point where a 20-minute episode, I can get done in easily 30 minutes.

Brett Johnson: There you go. Right.

Frank Agin: We get better at it, in time.

Brett Johnson: Exactly. The self-critique goes lower, and lower, and you just get better. The intros are better; the segues are better; you know what you’re doing … You critique less, I think, because … I always have that problem. Either stop doing it, or quit dwelling on it.

Frank Agin: Right. Exactly.

Brett Johnson: Find out how to get rid of the problem. You have a mix of solo, and interview format. Is that on purpose? By accident?

Frank Agin: To be honest, when I started, it was gonna be nothing but me sharing the content from my various books, and the stories, and experiences I had. As I indicated, I franchise, so I have groups of people in my organization all around the United States.

Frank Agin: I had somebody reach out to me, and say, “Have you thought about doing interviews?” My initial reaction was, “Aww, this is self-serving. This guy wants to be on …” Rolling my eyes. I shared these things with him. After the fact, I said I didn’t really think this was a good idea. He came back, and he said, “No, think about it.” So, I did, which is, I think, a … There’s a lesson in there, that people hit us with ideas. It may not be that idea, but there’s something there.

Brett Johnson: Right.

Frank Agin: He said, “You know, when you get people on, you’re gonna expand your audience.” Like, “Oh, geez, you’re right,” and that’s what I found. That’s how I stumbled into it, and it created a new issue of, okay, now, I gotta find guests.

Brett Johnson: Right … I think the adage is if you’re going solo, you’re branding yourself. If you’re interviewing, you’re networking. You don’t really have the opportunity to brand yourself in an interview. There are benefits to both. It just depends on what you wanted to accomplish. You’re right, watching out who’s approaching you, and why do they wanna be on your podcast, filtering that out, without …

Brett Johnson: Again, you can always hit delete, and it never gets aired in your stream, which is the benefit of podcasting, which is great, yeah … You are doing some interviews. How do you go about interviewing- I should say, putting the schedule together to interview? .

Frank Agin: I’m struggling with that right now. I wish I had a great answer for that. I had a flurry of people right out of the gate that wanted to be interviewed, and I’ve got more people lined up, but trying to mix it all in with the regular content … Generally, what I’ve done is Tuesdays, the regular content is coming out. Thursday, I will put an interview out.

Frank Agin: Am I doing interviews every week? Probably not, but, I have for the past six or seven weeks, and I’ll probably continue that for maybe another six or seven weeks. By the time that’s done, I might have another six or seven. I don’t know.

Frank Agin: To a degree, interviews are easier, because they’re not … You don’t have to put the planning in upfront; we just talk. To a degree, they’re a little more difficult, because you have to really put a little more time into editing, after the fact. When I’m doing an episode, where I’m providing value, if there’s something I’ve said that doesn’t come out well, I’ll stop, and rerecord it, so there’s less editing later. Okay, it’s done. I’m comfortable with it.

Brett Johnson: Right.

Frank Agin: There’s less planning on the front end, and I don’t have to worry about it.

Brett Johnson: Right. How is the podcast allowing you, and, of course, AmSpirit Business Connections to showcase your expertise? How did you plan for that to happen?

Frank Agin: Well, a number of ways. Like I said, I’ve written a number of books on professional networking. My take on professional networking is less about techniques, and skills – although that comes in a little bit. It’s really about habits, and attitudes, and how people need to be conducting themselves.

Frank Agin: For example, one of the recent podcasts I taped had to do with our relationships. I analogized it to dealing with Earthbound objects, meteors that are coming towards Earth. Sounds crazy, but there’s two rules … There’s two thoughts on that.

Frank Agin: One thought is that you just go up there … This is the Hollywood approach. You just go up there, and you blow it outta the sky. The problem with that is that you have all this fallout still coming towards Earth. Instead of one big rock, you’ve got 100 rocks coming at Earth. The NASA approach would be to go up to that object, and just gently nudge it; gently nudge it out of the path of Earth.

Frank Agin: I analogized that to our relationships. We all have relationships that are not perfect – even marital relationships aren’t perfect … I analogized it to those relationships that are really detrimental, and you have two approaches. You can have the Hollywood approach, and you can just blow it up, in which case, then you have all the fallout to deal with. Or, you can just kinda gently nudge it; gently nudge that person to be better behaved; gently nudge that person out of your life.

Frank Agin: That’s just kind of a way of … That’s a message that’s really geared towards anybody out there. That’s part of the podcast. The other part of the podcast; the other reason I did the podcast is there’s a lot of things that I do, with respect to training the members of my organization. Locally, I see a lot of these people, so I can actually talk to them.

Frank Agin: I’ve got a growing number of franchises out there, and I want to be able to get these messages out. In each chapter meeting of our organization, we have a segment that’s 20 minutes long for a member to give a presentation. In lieu of giving a presentation, I want to be able to provide them with content. “Here’s Frank talking about this particular concept: The ABCs of asking for referrals,” or whatever it might be. That was the other thought in mind. Again, it’s all about repurposing, recycling-

Brett Johnson: You’re doing that right now. Are you creating a content for …?

Frank Agin: Yes.

Brett Johnson: Okay. How are you delivering that to them?

Frank Agin: It’s just going up on the podcast.

Brett Johnson: Is it? Straight on the podcast. Okay.

Frank Agin: Yep, straight on the-

Brett Johnson: Not a private-channel thing [inaudible] a sign-in … Wow. Okay.

Frank Agin: A lot of it, I really geared towards anybody, but I’ll let the franchisees know, “Hey, this is an episode that you can deliver. It’s just like me talking; me doing the program.”

Brett Johnson: Interesting. Okay … I think a lot of businesses miss that aspect, that this is a communication opportunity to affiliates that may be across the country, or offices that are across the country; that whether it’s a public podcast, or a private-channel podcast, at least it’s a message that’s out there, disseminated, that your sales force can listen to it in the car, on their next stop to their next call.

Brett Johnson: I think they’re starting to learn this opportunity, but again, it’s one of those, “Oh, I didn’t know you could do that. I thought a podcast was just for the general public.” Not necessarily. It’s an opportunity to talk to who you want to talk to, on their terms, very easily.

Frank Agin: Yep.

Brett Johnson: Has this podcast, in the amount of time you’ve done it, lead to … Has it led to new business referrals, do you think, yet? Have you felt that feedback?

Frank Agin: I can’t say that it has. I can’t say that it has, and I’ve really only been doing it … Started September of 2018, and I think-

Brett Johnson: That’s a short term to figure that out, and to feel that love. Let’s put it that way [cross talk]

Frank Agin: -I’m selling a franchise that’s … It’s not cheap to buy a franchise.

Brett Johnson: Sure, sure.

Frank Agin: But it is really opening a lot of doors for me. For example, I have one coming out this week; I interviewed a guy in Finland. We had connected online, through LinkedIn, or something like that, and we were just talking. Here’s a vehicle where I can learn about him; he can share what he has. It provides content for me. He’s got 20,000 LinkedIn connections, and he’s gonna promote me. I don’t know where that goes.

Brett Johnson: Sure.

Frank Agin: I don’t know where that goes-.

Brett Johnson: But it’s an opportunity you can’t not take.

Frank Agin: Right-.

Brett Johnson: Technically, how did you do that? How did you do the interview?

Frank Agin: We did it via Zoom. I’ve been using Zoom. That’s something that, just in researching this whole thing … Some people say Skype, or Zoom. I just became very comfortable with Zoom, so that’s how we did it.

Brett Johnson: Good, okay. Marketing the podcast, your publishing schedule – every week.

Frank Agin: Yes.

Brett Johnson: Then, mixing in some interviews, as well, when available; so, a couple times a week. Social-media strategy – what are you doing to organically help awareness of the podcast?

Frank Agin: When episodes release, I will put a post up. Maybe I’m not terribly anal, as far as podcasters go, but I think, compared to the general public, it’s kind of anal … When I produce a podcast, I have an Excel spreadsheet. It’s like, “Okay, this is going in here. Here’s the title, and here’s the length, and here’s what … Am I using a short intro, or a long intro? What’s the outro?” One of the things I do put in most podcasts is I’ll put a little plug for our franchising opportunity. Well, which one am I using, so I can keep track of that. I’ll write up a description, at that point in time.

Frank Agin: From there, we populate a Google calendar, so, when the podcasts release, I’ve got all the information I need, and I can just go, and copy from that Google calendar, and then paste on LinkedIn, on my profile, and then various groups that I’m involved with. Same thing, with respect to Facebook. Then people will share that out, and that’s how it’s going.

Frank Agin: Depending upon who the person I’m interviewing, I might make a personal plea to a particular group. For example, if it’s somebody within AmSpirit Business Connections, I will … For example, the first person I interviewed was in Pittsburgh. I sent an email to all the members in Pittsburgh, saying, “Hey, I’ve interviewed Dr. Bulow. You might wanna listen to this podcast.”

Brett Johnson: You’re tracking, and you’re also putting some call to action, as well, in each episode. What is the call to action? Is it an email to you? A phone call to you? How are you putting that in?

Frank Agin: I do ask people for comments. Generally speaking, I don’t know that that’s the best strategy, because if you stop, and think about it, most people, when they’re listening to a podcast, they’re probably in a car, or they’re probably on a treadmill. That’s the feedback I’m getting. “Hey, I really love your podcast. I get up in the morning, and one day a week, I’m able to listen to it on the treadmill,” or a drive in the car.

Frank Agin: I do get emails from people with questions. “Hey, you talk about … You talked about this, but what does that mean?” Right away, I know I’ve assumed too much knowledge, and then I’ll get on a future podcast- I’ll insert something in, and refer back, and say, “In Episode 12, I talked about this. Let me elaborate a little bit.”.

Brett Johnson: That’s fantastic feedback. That’s golden.

Frank Agin: It is. Oh, it is.

Brett Johnson: It’s golden.

Frank Agin: We talk about running out of material. I don’t know that you ever run out of material. There’s always something there. There’s always something there …

Brett Johnson: Right. There’s always a question about what you’ve put in play already.

Frank Agin: Right, yeah.

Brett Johnson: It’s allowing that listener, the listener base, to have access to you. You know you’ll respond in an efficient way, as well as, “Here are the many ways you can reach me. Let’s do this.”

Frank Agin: Right.

Brett Johnson: Yeah, good. Sharing of episodes from the guests – have you got a game plan? What do you give them to help you promote? For example, the gentleman you spoke to in Finland, what are you giving him to help you?

Frank Agin: Yeah, that’s a good question. I have a, call it, a white paper. It’s two or three pages, just talking about, “Okay, here are the topics we’re gonna touch on. Here’s how it’s gonna go; you’re gonna have an opportunity to introduce yourself … The podcast is Networking Rx. It’s all about networking, so, I’m gonna address questions on networking. What’s your pet peeve? What are some challenges you face? What advice would you give to a younger version of yourself?”

Frank Agin: Then, I have a list of 10 or 12 other questions that they will pick from ahead of time. We weave that in, in a very natural approach. They have that all ahead of time, which people appreciate. Some people never look at it, but that’s fine, too. At least it gives me a game plan, as to what I want to do, as opposed to just getting somebody on, and “Okay, let’s talk.”

Brett Johnson: Sure. After the episode is done, then do you offer any links, any audio links, that sorta thing, to help them promote it as well, that they were on the podcast?

Frank Agin: I do. We promote up to Libsyn, so we get a link from them that I will share with them, as we get closer. Some of them try to access it ahead of time, but Tuesday, 6:00 a.m., it releases; nothing’s there before then.

Brett Johnson: Yeah, exactly.

Frank Agin: Sometimes, they don’t listen to what I have to say. “Hey, it’s not there!” No, it’s not supposed to be there.

Brett Johnson: Right. Exactly.

Frank Agin: We’ll have them share that out.

Brett Johnson: You spoke of Libsyn. You did some homework, obviously; your daughter did.

Frank Agin: Yep.

Brett Johnson: Why did you both decide upon Libsyn as a platform?

Frank Agin: I don’t know. I really can’t remember the exact reasoning why. There were a couple out there; Libsyn was one of them. One of the things that she had me do … There was a webinar on podcasting every week that would have something: Here’s how you name your podcast; here’s this; here’s the equipment you should have. Every week, there was a little bit of something. Libsyn was on our list, and that was one of the two things that this particular person had mentioned, so, we’re like, “Okay, let’s just go with that.”

Brett Johnson: There is no wrong answer to that. Each platform has its specific nuances; some a bit better than others, but it all depends on where you’re coming from, and what you need that platform to do for you, and your website, and your business. They’re all equally pretty darned good.

Frank Agin: Yeah, yeah-

Brett Johnson: At least the major ones that have been in play for the past 8, to 10, to 12 years. They’re pretty solid. They’re being certified. You can guarantee that the numbers you’re seeing are true numbers.

Frank Agin: For us, it was relatively inexpensive. On a monthly basis, I think it’s $15. When you’re starting out podcasting, and it’s just- it’s not your business per se – it’s just something you’ve added on to your business – you don’t want to invest a ton up front. I figured, okay, 15 bucks … Three months from now, if this isn’t working out, I can bail on it, and I’m really not out a whole lot.

Brett Johnson: Right.

Frank Agin: You’re right. They give a ton of value for that, and it’s worked out.

Brett Johnson: Good. The equipment you’re using to record the podcast, let’s talk about that.

Frank Agin: I generally do it right on my computer. I have bought Blue Yetis; got a couple of Blue Yetis as microphones that I use. They’re not the best, but pretty good, from what I can tell. Again, there was some research done on the front end, listening this webinar, and kinda looking out there.

Frank Agin: Yeah, it’s generally done on my computer, using Audacity. If I’m using Zoom, then I’ll need to take that file, and I’ll need to convert it to an MP3, and then, import it into Audacity, and edit from there. That’s really pretty much it.

Brett Johnson: The learning curve to use Audacity – hard? Easy for you?

Frank Agin: Well, I cheated, because I had my daughter; she pretty much gave me a cheat sheet [cross talk]

Brett Johnson: You jumped into it, and did … Even with a cheat sheet, pretty easy?

Frank Agin: Oh, yeah. Very, very easy. There are times where I might need to text her, and say, “Hey, wait a minute, I’m stuck here. This happened. What do I do?” I think, to a degree, I’m impatient. I’m just so busy with so many other things in my life, in my business, that I didn’t really have time to climb the learning curve, so she really helped me up it. I’m sure there are lots of things, with respect to Audacity, or Zoom, or any of these things – Libsyn – that I’m not taking advantage of. I figure, in time, I will, but it was enough … I know enough that I can-.

Brett Johnson: Put out a good product.

Frank Agin: Right.

Brett Johnson: Yeah … I think that’s with everything that we buy. Buy a new car. There are a lot of things on your new car, you don’t use for a year.

Frank Agin: Right. If ever. It’s like a computer.

Brett Johnson: You just don’t. Exactly. Future plans for the podcast? Where are you going with this?

Frank Agin: Where it takes me, I guess. I just plan on continuing to put episodes out. As I indicated, I wanted to get to 100 episodes, and then really try, and explore some of these-.

Brett Johnson: Quite frankly, that’s a really good goal. I think that’s very smart. If nothing else, because then, you’ll have at least 50 weeks in; looking at twice a week, even more than that. I think a lot of people jump in it the wrong way, and you’re looking at it the right way. Get some in. Then, that way, when your guest looks at what you’re doing, “Oh, he’s 100 in. Yeah, he knows what he’s doing. He’s not trying to build off of my …”.

Frank Agin: Exactly.

Brett Johnson: “… my network to build him up. He’s actually adding some value to my world, as well.” That’s a good idea.

Frank Agin: Right. Early on, when I was researching all of this, I had a conversation with a gentleman, who was looking to put together a company producing podcasts. He didn’t have a podcast himself, but he knew one of the people that I was thinking of approaching. He said, “Yeah, I approached him. He told me no unless I had a million downloads.” I know the person well enough to know that that’s probably not what they were saying. They probably said that, but what they meant is, “I’m not gonna be your first episode. I’ll be somewhere down the line.”

Brett Johnson: Right.

Frank Agin: I think that’s fair. I think that’s-.

Brett Johnson: Oh, for sure, it is, exactly. I think it becomes you’re then working with a seasoned podcast. They’re gonna ask better questions. They’re not going to be listening to other podcasts, and go, “Oh, that’s a good question. I need to ask him that.” What they’re looking for is what makes you different, that you’re gonna ask a better question than anybody else has that adds value to me, adds value to you, holistically.

Brett Johnson: There are a lot of new podcasters that are looking at it that way, say, “I can nail a couple two or three great interviews, and I’ll be right there, up at the top.” That isn’t how it works. Maybe 5, 6, 10 years ago, maybe, because of the lack of number of podcasts, but now, that’s a very difficult road to drive.

Frank Agin: Right. I just tend to put – back to your question – I just tend to put blinders on. I’m gonna put out good material. There are people out there who … Not everybody is gonna listen to every episode, but every episode, somebody’s gonna listen to, and somebody’s gonna get something out of. From that standpoint, alone, it’s my duty to try and get the information out. There might be one podcast I put out that only one person listens to, and that changes their world. It’s a success, so I’m-

Brett Johnson: Sure, yeah. That’s probably the most realistic way of doing this is affecting one person at a time, because those one persons add up very quickly, over time, as networking does, too. Back to your core of what networking does.

Frank Agin: Right. Absolutely, yeah.

Brett Johnson: Advice for business owners considering podcasting as a marketing tool: what would be the first steps that you learned from, that you should have done, or that, “Hey, I’m glad I did this”?

Frank Agin: I think the first step that anybody needs to do is take a hard look at what kinda content do I have? Just hearing yourself talk is not a good reason to have a podcast. What kind of value can you add? I call it Trojan Horse marketing, where what a podcast allows you to do is just …

Frank Agin: I guess what a Trojan Horse is, essentially… Back in the day, the Greeks couldn’t break into the city of Troy, so they gave the city of Troy a wooden horse, and hidden inside the wooden horse were these elite warriors. In the middle of night, they got out, and took down the city, and opened the gate, and that’s how the Greeks got in.

Frank Agin: That’s how I look at podcasting. Podcasting is that way that you can get out there, and get through the gates of the people you’re trying to talk to. They know you’re out there; they know you’re real; they know you provide value. That’s gonna open doors for you. Whereas calling, literally, their gatekeeper, and saying, “Hey, I’d like to talk to the CEO, or I’d like to talk to this person,” that’s just not effective anymore.

Frank Agin: Thinking about what’s my game plan? … You have to have a purpose. It’s like anything. If you don’t have that purpose, you’re not gonna follow through with it. It’s not gonna change your world overnight. It likely won’t. I can’t say that for sure, but if you go in thinking, “If I put out 10 episodes, I’ll pick up a client,” you’re doing for the wrong reason.

Brett Johnson: Well, thanks for being a guest on Note to Future Me. I really appreciate it. This has been this insightful, on your take on why to do podcasting for a networking company, which is great; which is pretty much what podcasting can be.

Frank Agin: Absolutely.

Brett Johnson: You’re right in the zone for what a podcast can actually do for a business, and you’re in networking. It’s a perfect match.

Frank Agin: Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

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